Mitt Romney, Barack Obama vs Natural Born Citizenship and the Constitution

October 13, 2011
Posted by clinicalthinker @ 13:07 PM

UPDATE on Mitt Romney “natural born citizen” state.
Please read this latest research update on this issue.

This is a re-post of an article I wrote (based on the research and comments submitted by Adrianne) back in mid June. I am grateful for her research finds.

It is CRITICAL that the public understand this problem … leap on the bandwagon and FORCE EVERYONE RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT TODAY to address this issue.

For whatever reason the DC powers that be CONTINUE TO IGNORE the most important issue that faces the United States.

YES EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE ECONOMY.

Without a fix for this constitutional problem the imminent economic collapse is small change in comparison.
WE CAN AND WILL RECOVER from a collapsed economy.
WE CAN NOT RECOVER FROM THE COLLAPSE FROM WITHIN WITHOUT THE CONSTITUTION.

People YOUR FREEDOM IS AT STAKE … WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

THE CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENT THAT THE PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES BE NATURAL BORN IS IMPORTANT.

No matter how ANYONE slices, dices or ginsu it BARACK OBAMA for certain does not meet the requirement … neither does Mitt Romney according to records of old.

If these contenders are not WILLING to face and DO SOMETHING about this problem then WE AS CITIZENS MUST FACE THE FACTS … that contender is either ignorant (no matter what they claim) of what the constitution says/means or is to cowardly to stand up and follow it.

Those contenders do NOT DESERVE THE VOTE OF THE PUBLIC PERIOD.

Do we need ANOTHER IGNORANT COWARD in the white-house after the 2012 election?
DO WE ACCEPT WASHINGTON BUSINESS AS USUAL?

Is Mitt Romney a “natural born citizen”?

Was George Romney (father of Mitt Romney) a natutal born citizen?
Not according to the historical records I could dig up.

If George Romney was not a “US citizen”, “natural born citizen” or became naturalized BEFORE Mitt was born then neither can Mitt Romeny (his son) be natural born.

THE CASE:

Had Romney been successful in 08, we’d still have socialized medicine, only the name would be Romneycare, not Obamacare.

In regards to the missionaries, I point that out to show that the expatriate Mormons HAD to become Mexican citizens since missionary work by foreigners was prohibited by Mexican law at the time.

Geometry, “if this and this, therefore that.” If Mexico only allowed citizens to conduct missions/missionary work. The Mormons operated missions in Mexico, therefore, the Mormons were Mexican citizens.

Since George W. Romney was born in Mexico, son of the head elder, there for about 3 decades before his birth, said elder must have been a Mexican citizen, therefore, could not bestow American citizenship, let alone “natural born” to George W. Romney. Since George W. Romney was therefore NOT AN American citizen, he could not bestow natural born to his son Mitt Romney. It does not matter what state Mitt Romney was born in.

The operative immigration law of nations at the time, each government had a tacit agreement about such expatriates as a matter of being put into delicate situations of having to defend Americans on foreign soil. This procedure was operative when the Mormons fled Utah, the standard being that if an American stayed (at the time the accepted time frame was) 5 or so years, each country would consider they had rejected their native country’s citizenship.

Since the family was in Mexico, depending on the story, 1870′s or 80′s, the USA would have considered them Mexican and Mexico would have too, on that account.

Since Mexican law severely restricted foreign ownership of territory and since Romney’s own family genealogy reports they bought land w/Mexico’s approval, then if this, then that of it concludes that they were Mexican citizens, free to own land and also, do their missionary work.

The Mormons left to escape the US government threats, then passage of two severe laws against polygamy (links below). They were losing or had lost their citizens’ rights to vote, sit on juries, etc. The final legislation banning polygamy and assessing severe sanctions in the 1880s made committed polygamy a crime and while the legislation OFFERED THE EXPATRIATES IN MEXICO a legal way back, all those who were married prior to 1864, (and George W. Romney’s father was), he could have chosen to repatriate with all benefits of American citizenship.

He declined and died in Mexico in 1906 or 1907, never returning, never giving up Mexican citizenship.

Clearly American citizenship was not a concern then, Romney et al have a dog in that fight but not the Mexican Mormons, the Romney family tree is clear, committed and leaders of that movement.

Notes to CI from Adrianne:

CI … I went to your site and as I forewarned, said that the “official” accounts are revisionist history.

From your link:

“… While Romney was born in Mexico, he was still considered to be a viable and legal candidate to run for president. His Mormon grandfather and his three wives fled to Mexico in 1886, but none of them ever relinquished their citizenship.”

Actual Chronological History:

Mitt Romney’s paternal great grandfather Miles Park Romney was one of the many families that left the United States in March of 1885 to conlonize Mexico. (why and their citizenship fate explained below)

Mitt’s paternal grandfather Gaskell Romney stayed in Mexico until the Mexican Revolution forced his family to move back to the United States.

Mitt’s father George W. Romeny was also born in Colonia Dublán, Galeana, in the Mexican state of Chihuahua – one of the Mormon colonies in Mexico – on July 8, 1907.

Mitt Romney’s great-grandfather, George W. Romney’s maternal grandfather, Helamen Pratt:
Pratt was one of the first missionaries to Mexico, and in 1876 at Hermosillo, Sonora, Pratt and Meliton Trejo performed the first baptisms recorded by the LDS Church in that country. Pratt latter served as president of the Mexican Mission based in Mexico City for part of the 1880s. After his release he moved to Colonia Dublan in Galeana, state of Chihuahua, Mexico, where he died.

He married in Salt Lake City, Utah, 20 April 1874 German Anna Johanna Dorothy (“Dora”) Wilcken (Dahme, Zarpin, Rheinfeld, Ostholstein, Schleswig-Holstein, 25 July 1854 – Colonia Dublán, Galeana, Chihuahua, Mexico, 22 June 1929), daughter of Carl Heinrich Wilcken (Eckhorst, Holstein, Schleswig-Holstein, 5 October 1831 – Salt Lake City, Utah, 9 April 1914) and the first of at least four wives (m. Neustadt in Holstein, Ostholstein, Schleswig-Holstein, 10 August 1853) Eliza Christina Carolina Reiche (Neustadt in Holstein, Ostholstein, Schleswig-Holstein, 1 May 1830 – Salt Lake City, Utah, 13 August 1906), both of whom also became LDS Church members. He was also a polygamist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helaman_Pratt

His maternal great grandfather, Helaman Pratt’s Obituary:
Helaman Pratt, a Frontiersman From Birth, Closes Long Missionary Life at 63

In the death of Helaman Pratt, the Juares stake has suffered an irretrievable loss. He died of apoplexy, Nov. 26, 1909, at his house in Colonia Dublan, Chihuahua, Mexico. Few have done more for the spreading of the gospel among the natives of Mexico than he. None have taken a more general interest in the work both temporal and spiritual. ….”

Would you agree then, that despite the claim on the official page, the link I give from the FAMILY genealogy page would show that Romney’s great grandfather and his descendants all considered him a missionary?

Mexican law, until the 1940′s prohibited foreign missionaries.
I know this because my cousin was a Franciscan missionary and was imprisoned and tossed from Mexico, the third time with a warning he’d be shot.

Interesting old article, some name dropping, too:
Mormons Carry On In Mexico Farm Area

May 03, 1986|By William Stockton, The New York Times
NUEVO CASAS GRANDES, MEXICO — A hundred years ago, a group of Mormons loaded their possessions and families onto wagons and moved to Mexico to seek a place to practice polygamy free from interference and to establish a beachhead from which to convert Mexico to Mormonism.

Polygamy died out not long after the turn of the century, and most of the Mormon colonies disappeared, too. But two survived and prospered in northern Chihuahua, and the descendants carry on their ancestors` religious traditions and work as farmers and ranchers.

Residents have names such as Romney, Taylor, Wagner and Hatch, and some live in two-story Victorian-style brick houses reminiscent of Salt Lake City. But a century of living here has produced a life of dual identities.

On one hand, the Mormons are Mexican citizens, some proudly, ardently Mexican. They speak Spanish, are subject to Mexican laws and economic woes, and must meet the Mexican military service requirement.

But their outlook on life is decidedly American. Their children attend Brigham Young University in Utah, and they receive Bride`s magazine when a daughter`s wedding is imminent. The side of the refrigerator in one Mormon home has a very American set of household rules posted for the children.
Whole Story …

In order to stay and own property, they had to become Mexican Citizens.

HELAMAN PRATT — Mission to Mexico City

” ….Helaman’s duties with the exploration commission did not release him from his duties as Mission President. It was not until after the trouble with the Governor of Chihuahua that he was released and set apart by President Taylor to help in the colonization of the Saints in Mexico. In this new calling he worked hard to help the Saints get land, secure land titles, water rights, spearhead the building of canals, and ditches and all that was necessary to make their new home a happy and prosperous one. At the time he set Helaman apart, President Taylor told him that he was called until death released him, and that he was to become a Mexican citizen and take part in the government. Helaman accepted the call and all its ramifications. ….

Helaman Pratt’s Mexican naturalization paper.

State side persecution from the government only increased as the Mormon Church continued to grow. In 1882, the Edmunds Act, which outlawed cohabitation with more than one woman, was passed. To enforce this, U.S. President Chester A. Arthur sent the Utah Commission. All Mormons who practiced polygamy were disenfranchised, stripped of the right to vote or hold public office. Many of them were also jailed. Although this clearly violated U.S. constitutional law forbidding ex post facto laws, over 1,300 men were jailed. In Idaho, a loyalty oath was instituted in 1885, which required all residents to swear they opposed polygamy or any organization that taught it in order to vote. This effectively disenfranchised all Mormons. Mormons appealed these laws all the way to the Supreme Court of the United States, but things only got worse. In 1887, the U.S. Congress passed the Edmunds-Tucker Act, which dis-incorporated the Mormon Church and seized virtually all of its property. It required loyalty oaths from local officials, which kept even Mormons not practicing polygamy from holding office, and allowed the federal government to appoint state officers and even control what textbooks could be allowed in classrooms.

In July of 1862 the Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act was signed into law by Abraham Lincoln. Then in March of 1882 the Edmunds Anti-Polygamy Act of 1882 was signed into law.

The Edmunds Act not only reinforced the 1862 Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act but also revoked polygamists’ right to vote, made them ineligible for jury service, and prohibited them from holding political office.

Their citizenship was unceremoniously stripped.
According to the anti-polygamists the Mormons were charged with “political treason” by establishing a separatist theocracy in Utah. Second, they saw a social treason (Race Treason) against the nation of White citizens when Mormons adopted a supposedly barbaric marital form (polygamy).

By the time George W. Romney was born, it was quite safe for the Romneys to come back to the United States. They chose not until the revolution in 1912 forced the issue.

The polygamists expatriated.
They went to Mexico planning to convert Mexico and stay in Mexico.

And the bottom line is that immigration law then, put a time limit for natural citizens to live in a foreign country. Especially with no indication they’d come back. The Mormons bought and owned property. Not to mention that Mexican law at the time severely restricted foreign ownership, they COLONIZED the place, all their literature freely admits that.

Go to the American colonists. How many of them came with the intent of going back? They came to stay. As did the Mormons who because citizens.

Now, here is the link and the pertinent points of law that show that law and protocol at the time considered the Mormons expatriates.

“…….Congress finally got into the act in 1907, passing a new law that essentially codified most of these administrative rules governing expatriation. Loss of citizenship depended on the act—naturalizing elsewhere or assuming lengthy foreign residence, for example—not the conscious choice of the individual to give up US nationality as a result…”

Dual citizenship was rare and frowned upon at the time, if it existed in real terms at all.
But the idea is moot since dual is not natural born.

If you are not yet familiar with what the constitution says about “natural born citizen”?
I suggest you bone up on it by visiting the links below.
Also keep in mind that all the naydsaying rhetoric from those who believe “the constitution” is a living growing document? THEIR OPINION of what is TODAY CONSTITUTIONAL LAW matters not and is about as valuable as confederate money.

4 Supreme Court Cases define “natural born citizen”

Having the Status of Birthright Citizenship Is Not Sufficient to Make One an Article II “Natural Born”

Are the “Birthers” barking up the wrong tree?

More Citizenship Information Backed Up By Congressional Records

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51 Responses to “Mitt Romney, Barack Obama vs Natural Born Citizenship and the Constitution”

  1. WebPages Says:

    Terrific post. Wonderful writing. Retain it up.

  2. dawn gaye Says:

    “Since George W. Romney was born in Mexico, son of the head elder, there for about 3 decades before his birth, said elder must have been a Mexican citizen, therefore, could not bestow American citizenship, let alone “natural born” to George W. Romney. Since George W. Romney was therefore NOT A natural born American citizen, he could not bestow natural born to his son Mitt Romney. It does not matter what state Mitt Romney was born in.”
    Your article is excellent except you have one error – you are wrong about the business of needing to be an NBC in order to bestow it on your offspring (you only need to be a C), We know George W Romney, Mitt’s father , was not a NBC, but was he actually even a C? If so, where is the proof? If not, how do we know this?
    Thank you for your research, but if you would please comment on this, I’d appreciate it greatly. What proof do we have that George W Romney was an American Citizen and thereby able to bestow, along with his wife, NBC status to Mitt Romney? or not?
    Looking forward to your reply.

  3. dawn gaye Says:

    I found this info on another blog – not sure of accuracy:

    THe Mexican constitution says that the children of Mexican-born fathers are also citizens of Mexico, which makes Mitt Romney a Mexican citizen. His grandmother, Anna Amelia Pratt, who was a daughter of polygamists is of Mexican heritage. So, he actually does have real Mexican blood in him

  4. ClinicalThinker Says:

    Hi Dawn,

    George Romney was born in Mexico to expatriated Mormon parents.
    That made him a citizen of Mexico at birth and not a US citizen “natural born” or otherwise.
    George slid under the radar … never repatriated or naturalized before Mitt was born.

    Mitt would fall into the category of simple “citizen” … born into a “legal alien” family in the US.

    Marco Rubio is in the same category.
    Born in the US to “legal aliens” therefore a citizen.

    Barack Obama’s position is more tenuous because so far we really do not have proof he was even born in Hawaii … well other than his APPARENT DOCTORED online BC replica. If Obama was not born in Hawaii he is not even a citizen of the US.

    THE FACT that NO ONE IN CONGRESS has chosen to demand this proof only indicates we have ignorant, incompetent or corrupt people in those offices.

    The Romney children born to Mitt and his wife would be “natural born” of 2 US citizen parents.

    This natural born citizenship is not actually difficult if anyone chooses to look at the documents of old.
    The intent of the constitution is quite clear once you study it.

    It says what it means and means what it says in fairly simple “see spot run” terms. Those who want to argue the point will TRY AND CONVICE US ALL that somehow the simple “see spot run” is far more complicated and means something different. Kind of like Bill Clinton wanting us to all believe somehow “IT” changed definition during his accused perjury to congress.

  5. Carl Swensson Says:

    The only question must be this… Was George Romney a U.S. citizen at the time of Mitt’s birth? If it was required that he be Naturalized upon his entry into this country then merely by finding his Naturalization papers could we determine whether Mitt is NBC or not. Parents of the soil, born on the soil applies only to NBC. Citizenship has an entirely different set of rules and is much more leanient but there does seem to be a case for determining George’s status so we will know, conclusively, Mitt’s.

  6. ClinicalThinker Says:

    Yes you are correct.

    I have found no record of George becoming Naturalized nor has Mitt provided any record.

    Since everyone seems to want to ignore the situation I can only imagine everyone in the government is either stupid, ignorant or corrupt.

    Clearly Bachmann is one of the above because I heard her say on Greta that Marco Rubio would be a good VP.

    That blew her chance for a vote from me :)

  7. B K Brown Says:

    Then – We either need to see the Naturalization papers for Mitt’s Father or Mitt is constitutionally ineligible to be POTUS — Had never heard this before and it needs to be posted where people will see it. I will do my part.

    Thanks !

  8. Edward C. Noonan Says:

    @clinicalthinker…

    Your little comment block is too small for me. I posted my COMMENT at my website:

    http://noonan4president.blogspot.com

    Edward C Noonan
    President 2012

  9. Edward C. Noonan Says:

    I left another followup to the email you just sent me. I have entered it at http://noonan4president.blogspot.com It is further proof that Mitt Romney IS NOT A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN

    Edward C. Noonan
    President 2012

  10. Edward C. Noonan Says:

    You said in your email to me: “Romney himself could be ignorant of the NBC facts. Probably 2/3 to 3/4 of the population are. ”

    I find that really hard to believe. George Romney MUST have studied this matter until he was blue in the face. Surely he knew every arguement, every dit and every dot about the matter that the press was hammering him with. The Romney family surely has a firm grasp on this subject.

    I think it is merely a scam and they are all practiced at getting their own way. George Romney ended up with lots of cash in his pants… and therefore could buy off most of the media… yet he lost the bid for the POTUS so it drifted off into never/never land.

    And there must be as much knowledge with the current Mitt Romney group. I cannot believe the Romney family can’t recite line after line of rebuttal to every question thrown at them about the NBC issue.

    I do, however, find it incredible that only you and I and maybe a few dozen others throughout the US have brought this matter up. There are only three reasons why our group is so small… it would be that the other 300 million Americans are either TOO STUPID, TOO CORRUPT OR JUST DON’T GIVE A DAMN. Mostly I think it is the latter.

    January 2, 2012 3:50 PM

  11. B K Brown Says:

    I found on a couple other web sites that most people are not aware of what Natural Born Citizen means.
    Most don’t understand the requirements to be a NBC.
    Many just don’t care! Even news people that should be informed keep mentioning Rubio for VP – He is not a NBC either.

  12. ClinicalThinker Says:

    There are actually a lot of people who are aware.
    They simply do not know what to do about it.
    Nothing that any of us who are working on this seems to be making a dent anywhere.

    The logic used by the “tinfoil hat” and “flat world thinkers” is NO ONE IMPORTANT is kicking up a fuss so there must be nothing to it all.

    IT IS ignorance at its finest.

    They for whatever reason can not or choose not to delve into any of this on their own.
    Perhaps they do not want to be out of sync with the herd.

    There are those who are stupid … they are the ones who refuse to even look at the information.
    There are those who are corrupt … they know the truth and choose to ignore or tell the world it simply ain’t so.
    There are those who simply don’t care … what can I say?
    There are those who are simply ignorant … time spent watching the Kardashians latest reality show.

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  19. Bobbie Says:

    George Wilcken Romney (July 8, 1907 – July 26, 1995) was an American businessman and Republican Party politician. He was chairman and CEO of American Motors Corporation from 1954 to 1962, the 43rd Governor of Michigan from 1963 to 1969, and the United States Secretary of Housing and Urban Development from 1969 to 1973. He is the father of former Governor of Massachusetts Mitt Romney and the husband of former Michigan U.S. Senate candidate Lenore Romney.

    Romney was born to American parents in the Mormon colonies in Mexico; events during the Mexican Revolution forced his family to move back to the United States when he was a child.

    Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/george-w-romney#ixzz1iumjE238

  20. Jesse T Mims Says:

    Re “In regards to the missionaries, I point that out to show that the expatriate Mormons HAD to become Mexican citizens since missionary work by foreigners was prohibited by Mexican law at the time.”

    I don’t know whether or not it is true that a person had to become a Mexican citizen in order to do missionary work in that country; but, it does not matter. Becoming a Mexican citizen alone does not itself cause one to lose his U.S. citizenship. Unless that person became a Mexican citizen with the INTENT to relinquish his U.S. citizenship, his U.S. citizenship remains intact. Therefore, if there is no record of George Romney acknowledging an intent to relinquish his U.S citizenship, all the arguments about him not being an American citizen are moot.

    Re “Since George W. Romney was therefore NOT A natural born American citizen, he could not bestow natural born to his son Mitt Romney.”

    Being a natural born citizen is not a prerequisite to producing offspring who are natural born citizens. There are three requirements for becoming a natural born citizen:

    1. One must be born of two U.S. citizen parents.
    2. One Must be born on U.S. soil (or on a U.S. military base, U.S. ship, etc.).
    3. One must have been a U.S. citizen from birth (in other words, he can not have given up U.S. citizenship).

    Therefore, as Mitt’s father, George Romney was not required to be a natural born citizen himself.

  21. Jesse T Mims Says:

    Re “The operative immigration law of nations at the time, each government had a tacit agreement about such expatriates as a matter of being put into delicate situations of having to defend Americans on foreign soil. This procedure was operative when the Mormons fled Utah, the standard being that if an American stayed (at the time the accepted time frame was) 5 or so years, each country would consider they had rejected their native country’s citizenship.”

    Where does the the information about the “operative immigration law of nations” come from?

    Re “Since Mexican law severely restricted foreign ownership of territory…”

    Again, what is the source for this?

    Re “Mexican law, until the 1940′s prohibited foreign missionaries.
    I know this because my cousin was a Franciscan missionary and was imprisoned and tossed from Mexico, the third time with a warning he’d be shot.”

    Anecdotal evidence does not take the place of actual evidence such as a quote from the law itself. Show me the law…

    Re the article titled “Mormons Carry On In Mexico Farm Area” that is linked to in the article above. Just below the link to that whole article, the you say, “In order to stay and own property, they had to become Mexican Citizens.”

    However, in reading that article, we find that the Mormons in Mexico are STILL being harassed by the Mexican government over their right to their land. According to that article, the Mexican government wants to take the land belonging to the Mormons and give it to its own “peasants.” How can take one citizen’s land and give it to another citizen?

    At one point, that article says, “At issue is whether they have clear titles to the land and whether they own more land than Mexican law allows.” So there seems to be at least some discrepancy about the question of land ownership. If Mexico considers the Mormons to be citizens of that country, why is the Mexican government concerned about how much land they own?

    You do not appear to understand the natural born citizen issue; and, you make a lot of statements without giving any source for your claims.

    Considering all this, I am very skeptical of your conclusions about Mitt Romney not being eligible to become president. I have no problem with anyone relating factual information in order to keep Romney from getting the GOP nominee. I do that myself often; but, when one engages in lies, half truths, or even possibly true, but unsubstantiated claims, it tends to come back to bite the person in the ass.

    I’m not saying that YOU are engaging in such, just that you fail to prove your case when you do not substantiate your claims.

  22. June Says:

    Was Santorum’s father born here? He has mentioned several times that his Grandfather came here to work and then sent for his father.

  23. ClinicsalThinker Says:

    No Rick Santorum’s grandfather and his father were born in Italy.

    So far only the word of Santorum’s mother as to citizenship for Santorum’s father.

    They should provide documents showing Rick’s father was a citizen before Rick was born otherwise he (Rick) is not eligible.

  24. dawn gaye Says:

    “George Romney was born in Mexico to expatriated Mormon parents.
    That made him a citizen of Mexico at birth and not a US citizen “natural born” or otherwise.”

    Right. I understand this. My point is that when you state, as you did here and on another post:

    “Since George W. Romney was therefore NOT A natural born American citizen, he could not bestow natural born to his son Mitt Romney. It does not matter what state Mitt Romney was born in.”

    True, but the comment makes it sound to those new to all this and trying to grasp it, that one must be a NBC in order to bestow the status of NBC on their offspring. I know you don’t believe that and I am not trying to be picky, but this stuff is hard enough for the average mind to grasp. We who are doing the educating need to be precise.

    As I replied earlier:

    ” this sentence is misleading. It should read “George W. Romney was NOT a natural born citizen. He was not a US citizen of any kind at the time Mitt Romney was born. Therefore, he could not bestow Natural Born to his son Mitt Romney.”

    And I realize y’all know this, but for those trying to get their heads around the issue –
    Remember, parents do not need to be Natural Born Citizens to bestow Natural Born Citizenship on children. They must be CITIZENS of the US. They COULD be Natural Born, or they could be naturalized. They could be citizens of another country and come to the US, legally become US Citizens, then bestow Natural Born status to their kids. Parents can be Natural Born, Naturalized, or any other definition of a legal US Citizen, but the requirement is that they be CITIZENS to bestow Natural Born Citizenship upon their offspring.

  25. B K Brown Says:

    I’ve missed some of this …. Has it been factually established that George Romney was not a US Citizen at the time Mitt was born ?

    I understand that no “proof” has been provided that Rick Santorum’s father was Naturalized befor Rick was born.

    Have you been following the NBC Ballot challenges for BO ??

  26. B K Brown Says:

    http://politicalvelcraft.org/2012/01/28/mitt-romneys-father-was-a-mexican-citizen-when-mitt-was-born/

    Interesting !

    I see that in my previous post there is a befor instead of before.

    Is anyone following THIS web page ?

  27. clinicalthinker Says:

    Hi Bruce,

    Yes I have seen all of that information.
    According to simple Jus sanguinis (bloodline) Mitt would be “natural born”.

    Where it gets iffy is when and if those who fled lost their citizenship.

    Many ASSUME they did not.
    Many are emphatic they did not.

    If they did or did not DEFINITELY needs to be sorted out before we have another President who is not Constitutionally qualified.

  28. B K Brown Says:

    Did you see the ruling on BO in the Georgia case ?

    I am so ANGRY I can hardly see straight !

    http://api.ning.com/files/Qx6a0LN-EZL6XHK9QZ6beHi198rIuphFWKmetBA-LvpNWBfC6a1TIjQlrlNb*DE*BlcYOzvKcKNyTvccIXcJ-dXN7YJvCR3T/Final_Decision_2.3.2012.pdf

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  30. Journal of Constitutional Reset from Virginia Says:

    GETTING TO INDICTMENTS & BEYOND

    An open or brokered convention may require rule changes to succeed in raising an electable Republican platform and FULL slate of candidates.
     
    Given the relative extents of A) neo-con/neo-lib primary voting fraud and  B) Pro-Paul convention delegate placement: The Ron Paul for President campaign may need to prepare for RNC Convention rule 40(b) “Each candidate for nomination for President of the United States and Vice President of the United States shall demonstrate the support of a plurality of the delegates from each of five (5) or more states, severally, prior to the presentation of the name of that candidate for nomination.”
    Even though the required plurality of state delegates may be readily achieved for Paul once the delegate have fulfilled their 1st vote candidate commitment -The convention may set its rules and the rules of the RNC and there is cause for the Paul inclined delegates to change that rule.
    Consider that No POTUS, No single man can save our REPUBLIC. Republicans need to recognize their situation and act resourcefully and cooperatively.
    Personal ego raised above the necessities required to SAVE OUR REPUBLIC MAY be quickly used to disqualify any proposal or proposed candidate.
    So much must be accomplished so quickly if we are (God so helping) restore our economic prosperity and liberty.
    The Republican party needs to raise that proposed cabinet (1st & 2nd strings) and include that proposed cabinets objectives in the party platform.
    By platform and practical necessity, most cabinet secretaries will need to devolve their departments unconstitutional missions to the states – employing congress-authorized interstate compacts were needed – this will return to the states their power, along with inherent political and budget problems.  Dr. Paul is best positioned to bring this proposed cabinet together – particularly since Dr. Paul might be happiest, safest and most effective if he stood for three offices combined: VP, Treasury & Chairman of the Federal Reserve.  
    Then that cabinet needs to raise a POTUS candidate from the convention floor that is fit to MANAGE such a strong cabinet.
    We do not need a POTUS Candidate who grandstands which both inflames opposition and steals both the credit and heat due a cabinet officer.
    We need a POTUS with a Calvin Coolidge style of presidency.
    VA Gov. Bob McDonnell might be the best fit available among the constitutionally eligible ‘natural-born-citizens’.  It might take a change of rule 40(b) for that to happen.  But if the platform and proposed cabinet was truly excellent then the rule 40(b) plurality should not be difficult to obtain.
    Speaking of a FULL SLATE: In all this it is useful to remember that retaining the House majority and winning a senate majority is important.  These persons should take an active & highly visible role in gaining platform solidarity and solidarity with the proposed cabinet.  Their labors and buy-in should be formally, publically and gratefully acknowledged by the convention.   Exceptionally American Victorious Teamwork by Republican will win the confidence, minds and hearts of the American People – And will win votes come election time.
    VA Gov. Bob McDonnell can earn the public stage for this honorable elevation of the Republican party by gently, graciously and firmly doing his VA Constitutional duty to ‘take care that the [duly authorized constitutional] laws be faithfully executed”, and honorable embody all such force as is necessary to suppress insurrection, and enforce the execution of the laws upon each and every customary felony of each and every officer of the Virginia Judiciary, by offering them pardon upon the virtue of parole oath.  The customary conclusively evidenced felonies, each having evidenced criminal intent, are against Va-248, Va18.2-481(5), Va18.2-482, Va18.2-111, Va19.2-191(2) & the VFOIA.  Once the honor of Virginia’s courts are restored, including the Federal Courts in Virginia in that each Va Federal Judge is an officer of the SCOVA, then EVERY POTUS candidates Constitutional NBC eligibility can be examined according to VA1-248 under the as-ratified evidenced intent.  It is likely that Obama’s signatures as POTUS will be ab inito void and indictments must issue to many out-of-state persons that fall under Virginia’s jurisdiction.   Those indictments may be preceded by Gov. McDonnell’s invitation to surrender and pardon under the virtue of their parole oath.  The United States may have its political alienations healed by Va. Gov. McDonnell even before he is vested as POTUS.

  31. Attorney Schwager Says:

    You are absolutely right. Question earlier re Romney studying NBC. No. In debate, like Obama seen on YouTube now, when asked several x if he had to seek congress permission to declare war, he did not know thebConstitution and said 2-3x he’d have to speak with his lawyers! ThevNBC is more convoluted so I do not think arrogant RINO gave it a thought or knew it existed

  32. Bruce K. Brown Says:

    What is the BEST course of action to insure that ALL potential candidates are Constitutionally eligible ?

    A side note — this black background and small font are hard on these old eyes, I find myself doing a copy and paste into a Word document just to read the posts.

  33. Candice Schwager Says:

    The press is supposed to vet. That’s why we’re in this mess. We will have to until Congress creates a workable system. Can complain to board of election for ea state

  34. ClinicalThinker Says:

    Hi Bruce,

    Unfortunatly I can not change the background color or nothing else on the page will match.

    Actually the text is a light gray but to make it bigger to see … here is a tip.

    If you are using Internet explorer to to view at the top and then click on zoom a new window will flop open and you can change the text size to anything you want to help make it visible.

    FireFox uses the same method only under view … zoom you will find zoom in or zoom out. In being bigger and out being smaller.

    Sometimes if you have a wheel mouse you can simply do it from there. Some keyboards also have a zoom feature on them also.

    What with so many monitor resolutions now it is hard to stay on top of text size for those of us who design so this is what the browsers do to help.

  35. ClinicalThinker Says:

    Candice,

    Yes and a pretty complicated mess when one tries to sort it all out.

    We literally have no press any longer.
    It is going to be up to “we the people” to start taking an interest.

    The only voice we seem to have is our vote and that appears to be sorely compromised now.

  36. ClinicalThinker Says:

    Bruce,

    Honestly I am at a loss on how we deal with the eligibility issues.

    No one that should be paying attention is.

    Why?

    My guess is Romney, Santorum, Rubio, Jindal, Haley and a whole slew of others may have issues and want to be eligible but are not.

    If they let Obama slide then they can too.

    We are living in a dumbed down society where ignorance is rampant.

    Listen to what some of these leaders are saying.
    Are they taking IQ tests then picking the lowest scores to be in our government?

    All we can do is what we are doing and hope someone is paying attention :)

  37. ClinicalThinker Says:

    @Attorney Schwager

    The more I look at this mess I am fairly certain many of the people who run our government have never even read the constitution.

    It is not hard to understand if you simply apply the verbiage and leave out what maybe THEY REALLY MEANT.

    To me it appears the “THEY REALLY MEANT” bull crap is because they don’t like the simple what was said.

    Or they failed reading comp 101 in the 4th grade.

    To be honest some of these people in congress do not sound like they passed 4th grade.

  38. Bruce K. Brown Says:

    I have recently been on other sites where soma are ABSOLUTELY convinced that NBC only requires “born in US” – I have shown proof after proof and some still don’t get it ! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !

  39. Bruce K. Brown Says:

    some not soma in last post

  40. ClinicalThinker Says:

    Hi Bruce,

    That is what team Obama wants to happen and continue to promote.

    For the GOP to sit and do nothing could get Obama a second term.

    Many of the Ron Paul supporters and those who understand the requirement will NOT VOTE Romney on principle of this Constitutional issue.

    I have given up arguing over the issue because there are just those who do not get it.
    Stubborn or stupid?

    Either they are to lazy to research, can not believe SOMEONE IMPORTANT is not running with it or is simply to stupid to understand what is being said.

    I personally have read these requirements over at least 1000 times. It is fairly simple. A 4th grade student can read and understand it.

    Why it is hard for adults?
    I have no answer other than to stupid to recognize stupid.

    We can not convince them we just have to outnumber them … lol

  41. Bruce K. Brown Says:

    Thanks for the tip on sizing – have tried it that way, but then I need to change it back for other sites – just seems easier for me to copy out and paste into Word.

    Too bad WordPress does not allow the color and size changes.

  42. Bruce K. Brown Says:

    I’ll let you look at this yourself and let me know what you think. http://cdrkerchner.wordpress.com/2012/01/08/ancestry-ahnentafel-genealogy-chart-for-mitt-romney-by-cdr-charles-kerchner-ret/

    Just in case – bkbrown@firstva.com

  43. clinicalthinker Says:

    Hi Bruce,

    Yes I was aware of this.
    I emailed Kerchner and he directed me to this information.
    I am still not so sure. I could not find anything stating the Mormons kept their citizenship when they became Mexican citizens. They were offered repatriation when they came back to the states. I could find nothing saying George Romney took advantage of that.

    It is likely to be one of those things that will have to be sorted out in the court system.

    Clearly Obama is not eligible.
    Mitt Romney?
    If he chooses Marco Rubio or any other non-citizen for VP?
    It is likely he throws the election to Obama.

  44. Bruce K. Brown Says:

    Yes, and there are those who will vote for Ron Paul and not anyone else.
    If you don’t have it or have lost it in the shuffle.
    email is bkbrown@firstva.com — I will see it sooner than here.

  45. ClinicalThinker Says:

    Got it Bruce thank you :)

  46. Kris Sorem Sr Says:

    Each state secretary of state (SoS) is responsible for verifying the eligibility of every candidate for elective office according to state and federal constitutions. Each state SoS has an obligation by oath to enforce the state and federal constitutions. For this reason, each state SoS should be independent of any political party. Since this is not the case, we have been forced into a 2-party system. Voters should challenge their state SoS to prove if necessary in court their decision to list a candidate on a ballot. State class action suits against the state SoS.

  47. Kris Sorem Sr Says:

    My independent research invalidates the claim that land ownership was restricted to Mexican citizens. Such restriction did not occur until the 1917 Mexican constitution following the 1910 revolution. Gaskell Romney with George returned to the US due to that revolution. Land ownership by US citizens Miles & Gaskell Romney was legal in the late 1800′s. Still researching your claim of extended stay as forfeiting citizenship.

  48. ClinicalThinker Says:

    Kris thank you!

    Will you please send me where you found information confirming that?

    I do have the Constitution for Mexico during that time but can not read or speak the language.

    I have sent it off to someone for translation but have heard nothing back.

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